|Paġni li jiddiskutu l-lingwa Maltija|
|Għajnuna prattika għat-traduzzjoni | Grammatika Maltija (diskussjoni) | Kitba | Storja tal-lingwa Maltija | Kif tikteb bi-Malti fuq il-kompjuter|
Maltese WFR's[immodifika s-sors]
I was trying to guess an explanation why Srl's 'Talb għall Ħassrin', was wrong. That would be the paridigm of nominalizing from a verb.
- iħassar V = he deletes -> [t]ħass[ir] N = deletion
- ibierek V = he blesses -> [t]ber[ik] N = blessing
- ifaħħar V = he praises -> [t]ifħ[ir] N = praise
- kapaċi A = able -> kapaċi[tà] N = ability
- How does the paradigm work?. There must be some way of splitting the root. I don't know the rules. The funny thing is that prefix and infix togehter transform the word. That's interesting. Somebody should write something om Maltese WFR's (Word formnation Rules):P.
I don't have a Grammar book handy. The other day a Colleague mentioned that the famous linguist Mark Aronoff had a go at Maltese morphology. Et voilà... his paper is online. It's a PDF file: The verbal morphology of Maltese. I might have a look at this papaer tonight.
--Joelemaltais 20:17, 27 Mej 2005 (UTC)
what's the difference between: l' ewwel and l'-ewwel
The spellchecker suggests both. When do you use the hyphen and when not?--Joelemaltais 21:14, 1 Ġun 2005 (UTC)
- Joe, if I'm not mistaken, neither of the two are correct. "The first" should always be written l-ewwel, there is no need for the apostrophe.
- To avoid confusion, remember that the forms 'l and 'il are abbreviations of the word lil, used to indicate direction or an indirect object. A few examples:
- mexxa 'l quddiem = literally to lead forward, but used to mean to develop, to promote
- mar 'il bogħod = he went far ('il because mar ends in a consonant and bogħod begins with a consonant)
- saqsi 'l ħuk hux ġej = ask your brother if he's coming
- I'll be back to contribute to the Wikipedja soon! --Antoine Cassar 22:14, 2 Ġun 2005 (UTC)
- Wow that's a good explanation - makes sense. Thanks!. That could go straight to some reference grammar page outside the discussion space :)) So I'm going to have to do some cleanup on my articles.. but now off to bed.. :) gut's Nächtle--Joelemaltais 22:35, 2 Ġun 2005 (UTC)
A friend asked me about systematic language change in Maltese word structure specifically article incorporation with arabic loanwords e.g. Arabic: 'ma' (water), 'ilma' in Maltese ; 'al ma' (the water) --> 'l-ilma' in Maltese. Thus the definite article became part of the word.
- Could someone name other examples?
- As far as I know this is also quite common with Arabic loan words in Spanish. Could somebody confirm with examples? --Joelemaltais 15:38, 9 Ġun 2005 (UTC)
- Joe, you've come to the right place!!
- First of all, I'm not sure I'm aware of other examples in Maltese... there's the word linka (ink) where the article appears to have become part of the word, but of course that's not from Arabic!
- Secondly, Spanish is full of examples of words deriving from Arabic with the article forming an integral part of the word. In fact, most of these words begin with a or al, e.g.:
almohada (pillow), alcaparra (caper), 'Alhambra (name of a palace in Granada, named for its red colour), aceite (oil, cf. zejt), ... apparently there are about 600-800 more, if I remember correctly!
- Saħħa, --Antoine Cassar 16:36, 10 Ġun 2005 (UTC)
- Wow I'didn't expect that turaround.. ;-) ok so that answers the question. It's unbelievable how similar they are to the Maltese words. And apparently it is a general change tendency in Romance with Arabic substrate. I' was really surprised with linka. I always thought 'inka' but the web concordance here confirms 'linka' :)
- 23:131 allura l-kitba ma tibqax ftit linka stampata fi ktieb imma titwahhad
- 55:041 il-kaxxiera, idejha mxarrbin bl-gharaq, innutat linka sewda hierga mill-karta ta’
- 41:511 issa hadet hsieb li tuza linka li ma tmurx. Il-Kummissjoni tixtieq
I'm learning how to spell :))
thanks --Joelemaltais 11:41, 12 Ġun 2005 (UTC)
Insellem lil kulħadd Mill-ġdid jien Aldo Fenech, xtaqt ngħaddi kumment pjutost sarkastiku! Li ridt ngħid hu li għalxejn fl-iskejjel jiġi magħllem il-Malti, waqt li meta taqra li-gazzetti li suppost huma miktubha bl-istess ilsien nofs il-kliem li issib fihom huwa bl-Ingliż! X'qed ngħallmuhom lit-tfal, jekk imbagħad il-Malti mhux qiegħed jiġi applikat sew mill-Midja? x'sens tagħmel il-ħaġa li jkollna Ilsien nazzjonali li jtina identita' meta dan l-ilsien ma jiġix użatt tajjeb? U xi ngħidu dwar il-Malti mitkellem fuq ir-radjijiet u televiżżjoni! Hemm bżonn tassew ta' vokabuli ġodda li joqgħodu iżjed għal-lingwa Maltija, hemm bżonn li ħafna kliem fil-korsiv jitneħħa u minfloku jibdew jinkitbu kliem ta' Malti sew u pur! Tibżugħx toħolqu lessiku ġdid!
ta' vs. tal[immodifika s-sors]
- Skond il-Kostituzzjoni ta' 1964,....
If you speak the year in Maltese: elf disgħa mija erba u sittin, then you would have to use 'tal'. I have a vague impression that sometimes we speak the numbers in English... for instance in parliamentary debates ... i.e. are both versions actually tolerated and consequently ta' woukd also be correct? --joelemaltais\talk 07:18, 6 Settembru 2005 (UTC)
Most people say the numbers in English which IMHO is something utterly unacceptable. We should disregard such an attitude and keep writing everything as it should be, that is in Maltese - that is the only correct way.
Now, regarding the year in Maltese ie. "elf disgħa mija erba u sittin" you wouldn't use "tal-" but "ta l-". This is because the article in front of the date is l- not il-. Let me explain with a simple example.
kelb - il-kelb - tal-kelb
ilma - l-ilma - ta' l-ilma
għajn - l-għajn - ta' l-għajn
Therefore, the preposition ta' and the article l- have to remain separate when the noun starts with a vowel, Għ, or H. In other cases, they can be joined to form tal-. Hope this helps. --Roderick Mallia 10:40, 6 Settembru 2005 (UTC)
- Hi, I came across this composite word tafuhulu which I guess means something like:
- to be grateful to sombody for something EN
- essere riconosciente .... IT
- être reconnaissant ... FR
If we translate literally it would be something like
- to know thankfulness to(wards) him. which is of course incorrect English but it seems that Maltese rolls that out with to know instead of to be. Is this the case? Would that be expressed similarly in Arabic?
If the verb is actually to know, then would it be taf (as in 1) or tafu (as in 2)? I'm guessing that the final lu is the genitive particle to / of him (lilu). Even if we sort the initial an the final parts, could anybody tell me what the middle hu or uhu means? How does it directly or metaphorically imply Thankfulness? Which of the two ways (if at all) of splitting it is correct?
|to know||???||to him|
|to know him||???||to him|
I just have no clue.
- four years later, and now I want to know... —18.104.22.168 03:59, 13 Marzu 2009 (UTC)
Tafuhulu=tafuh+lilu=tafu+h+lilu (Literally: You (pl) know it(m) to him)
Nafhulu=nafhu+lilu=naf+hu+lilu (Literally: I know it(m) to him)
Tafhulu=tafhu+lilu=taf+hu+lilu (Literally: You (sing) know it(m) to him)
Jafhulu=jafhu+lilu=jaf+hu+lilu (Literally: He knows it(m) to him)
Tafhulu=tafhu+lilu=taf+hu+lilu (Literally: She know it(m) to him)
Nafuhulu=nafuh+lilu=nafu+hu+lilu (Literally: We know it(m) to him)
Tafuhulu=tafuh+lilu=tafu+h+lilu (Literally: You (pl) know it(m) to him)
Jafuhulu=Jafuh+lilu=jafu+h+lilu (Literally: They know it(m) to him)
Nafhielu=nafha+lilu=naf+ha+lilu (Literally: I know it(f) to him)
Tafhielu=tafha+lilu=taf+ha+lilu (Literally: You (sing) know it(f) to him)
Jafhielu=jafha+lilu=jaf+ha+lilu (Literally: He knows it(f) to him)
Tafhielu=tafha+lilu=taf+ha+lilu (Literally: She know it(f) to him)
Nafuhielu=nafuha+lilu=nafu+ha+lilu (Literally: We know it(f) to him)
Tafuhielu=tafuha+lilu=tafu+ha+lilu (Literally: You (pl) know it(f) to him)
Jafuhielu=Jafuha+lilu=jafu+ha+lilu (Literally: They know it(f) to him)
22.214.171.124 17:14, 13 Marzu 2009 (UTC)